Brief Summary on The Sarina Sites, Central Queensland, Australia
by (name withheld)
Deem (Editor of Truth Hunter Newslettter) and published as is.
article is not the author's work nor does he
take responsibility for its authenticity or credibility.
(as at 30th June 2003)
Research to date
has been limited to surface visuals by private researchers with
a refusal of academia to participate on political grounds. Officially,
the sites do not exist. Current controversy relative to Aboriginal
land claims has the Government somewhat paranoid about a possible
land claim by outsiders, relative to the
overwhelming evidence being uncovered of such colonies in the BC
era. Academia is strictly limited in its research to Aboriginal cultures.
First brought to
public awareness in 2000 by local researchers, the sites and evidence
triggered off media hysteria with the facts distorted into fictions.
Other sites, of course, relate and Sarina is not the epicentre but
only part of the huge complex now being uncovered. The researchers
fight guerilla warfare against established dogmas and political censorship
with no funding and laws that prohibit private excavation, removal
of artifacts and investigation of wrecks, etc.
Sarina has a population
of some 10,000, is a coastal village in a rainforest climate with
a recent geology of a highly complex hydrothermal metamorphosis.
The coastal range bisects deserts from rich, yet narrow, strips with
a vulnerable flat coast bisected by headlands and a continental shelf
extending some 160 kilometres to the Great Barrier Reef. The rich
sediments overlie some of the world's most ancient igneous rocks
and 200 years ago, the coastal strip was solid jungle, cleared and
burnt by farming practices, sugar cane and cattle raising industries
prevail. Environmental mismanagement has created irreversible problems
to an exquisite biota relative to the fossil hydrothermals now exposed
rich hydrothermal crusts were the attraction for colonists and
sea traders beginning around 2200 BC out of the Mediterranean. The
of coastal mining appeared to relate to the Solomon era of 950
BC when Phoenician vessels came to the fabled
land of Ophir out of the Red Sea port at Ezion-Geber on three-year
voyages across oceans returning exotics to the exploding Mediterranean
Point site is one of many around Australia's coastlines and it
is almost an exact copy of Tyre of Phoenician legend. The east harbour
jetty is a typical Phoenician loading platform of granite stone
in furnace-slag cement, some 400 metres in length by 30 metres
width by 5 metres high, running back to a freshwater spring and reservoir
-- one of two on the isthmus relative to adjacent to open cut mines
accessing gold, copper, metacinnabar, epidote, arfedsonite, etc
associated slag heaps and artifacts with the usual Bel altars on
with this east harbour Sarina inlet contains walls, a cemetery, a
Tanit shrine, a boatyard with launching ramp, a giant ten-acre fish
traps and the usual petroglyphs.
is built on one of the many raised tel platforms and shows clear
evidence of surface and underground mining of chromite ore, copper,
etc with furnace slag heaps and mining chips, ancient roads, artifacts
now overbuilt by modern real estate and canefields.
dictate a Phoenician engineering and are associated with other harbours
in the giant Broadsound archipelago where the engineers gave top
priority to their precious ships prior to establishing operations.
Aerial photographs clearly show eroded harbours and walls, reservoirs,
etc relative to nearby surface and alluvial mining with quarry chip
roads a very pertinent feature.
often expose giant flattened slag heaps, usually about one-metre
below today's silts, varying in analysis but always relating to adjacent
minerals which were refined into ingots and in the usual fashion
packed in bilges as ballast for the cargo vessels return to home
port. Many slag heaps and mine chips relate to underground strata
and today ancient mine entrances are flooded and silted up.
are numbered and are composed of local dolomite and slag in typical
Canaanite patterns of the half-cubit brick. The slag is now fossilised,
yet analyses give proof positive of ancient mining and smelting divorced
from any modern colonial operations which only span one century in
an easily accessible recorded history. The slag has eroded over millennia
and many deposits are found on now eroded beaches, usually adjacent
freshwater springs and ancient dogleg sluices are still in situ adjacent
large dam reservoirs. The latter are usually lined with clay.
These are raised
platforms in a 50-inch per annum rainfall, consisting of rammed earth
and mine chip and vary in size but are usually found adjacent mine
sites and presumably hosted the tents of the miners even as such
sites exist today with tents and wattle and mud constructions and
as the rainforest climate once hosted softwoods and hardwoods in
abundance, presumably, timber constructions as well.
find cultivated fields with sieved soils, enriched with fertilizers
adjacent the tels, and the enigmatic Phoenician potato, Tacca Petaloides,
a native of central Africa, now growing wild along with other plants,
not native to Queensland and Emmer wheat, barley and millet crops
have been found all over Australia growing wild. Some fields show
evidence of irrigation.
The Canaanite Bel
or Baal altar of the 'High Places' of the Canaanite cultures is very
evident along with the consort of Baal, Tanit, represented in small
shrines. Petroglyphs in the usually 'B' and 'Star' symbols occur
along with accompanying artifacts.
These occur in
cosmopolitan fashion in Ogam, Phoenician
as they well as all over the Australian continent and the Pacific.
The scripts have been dated to the era around 1000 BC.
is host to complex exotic minerals, timbers and gemstones -- with
the world's largest gemfields in central Queensland, but the hydrothermal
geology of the coast and the Reef complex of islands, is as yet
unknown to the general public, even though it has been carefully
with blanket leases existing, established in a clandestine fashion
by multinational mining corporations.
While experts in
antiquity have systematically mined the surface crusts and alluvials,
the underground deposits remain in situ and are incredibly rich.
Other exotics such as sandalwood and oils and perfumes known to be
present in the old concoctions are prolific across the state. It
must be understood that Australia as a continent has a mere two hundred
year's history and much of the continent remains unexplored.
the general public may be passionately curious about current research,
the researchers themselves are severely handicapped by lack of funds,
the political incorrectness, the bigotry of academic dogma and past
censorship of discoveries that do not allow any nation of previous
visitation or colonisation prior to the initial British colony at
Port Jackson in 1788. Ironically, the initial British colonisation
of the Pacific was a resurrection of the ancient sea trading designed
to import exotic goods and minerals back to the motherland.
For Further Information:
Sarina Shire Council
65 Broad St SARINA QLD 4737
Ph: (07) 4964 8100
Note: 2 Reports and 2 Videos available)
When visiting Sarina,
contact the Researchers:
(name withheld) - (07) 4943 1963
Wayne Freemantle - (07) 4943 0337
(07) 4943 0616 (Monthly Newsletter Editor)
Singh-Bartlett explores a claim that the ancient seafarers navigated their
way Down Under and across the Atlantic
A lot of
crazy claims have been made about the Phoenicians. Not content with
them having created possibly the world's first alphabet, established
an unprecedented trading empire and given the world the color purple,
some amateur historians claim that the ancient seafarers also beat Columbus
to the New World by a good 3,000 years.
Now, (name withheld), an amateur archeologist from Australia, says the Phoenicians
discovered Down Under and established a trading center near Brisbane
on the Queensland coast. A conspiracy theorist, he claims the Australian
government has known about this for 40 years but has kept the discoveries
quiet for fears of further upsetting Aboriginal sentiments. Osborne
claims that the site contains a cemetery, a temple, the remains of port
walls and stone sculptures -- several of which, he says, have already
ended up in private collections. Gripping stuff. But so far, no one
has seen any proof.
Lebanon, the Phoenician motherland, Osborne's claims are met with a
skepticism that borders on derision. "So far there is no evidence
of the Phoenicians crossing the Atlantic, let alone going all the way
to Australia," said Helen Sader, an expert in Phoenician history
at the American University of Beirut. "The claims are unsubstantiated.
Until we have some scientific evidence, from what we know, it's impossible."
of hard evidence hasn't discouraged the faithful. The announcement,
published by The Associated Press in July, led to a rash of postings
on alternative history Web sites, where believers have been making similar
claims for years.
on the World Weird Web -- a Web site dedicated to the more unusual theories
out there -- reveals that the Phoenicians, like the Egyptians, were
descended from the survivors of Atlantis. It is a mythical continent
believed to have been located in the middle of the Atlantic, which according
to legend sank beneath the waves.
theory has it that they were the offspring of aliens and that Baalbek
is actually a spaceport. Apart from Australia, Phoenicians are claimed
to have discovered Brazil, India and North America, to have brought
cocaine and tobacco from South America to Egypt and, most curiously,
to have inter-married with native New World inhabitants, producing blond,
blue-eyed Amazon Indians.
claims turn out to be true, it wouldn't be the first time accepted historical
wisdom has been turned on its head. The discovery in 1962 of a Viking
camp at L'Anse aux-Meadows in Newfoundland confirmed old Norse stories
that the Vikings had made it across the Atlantic. Subsequent excavations
revealed that the camp was permanent; a cemetery and traces of agricultural
activity were later discovered. Built in 1000 AD, the camp predates
Columbus by almost 500 years.
navigational technology was slightly more sophisticated than Phoenician.
Where the Phoenicians navigated by the stars, the Vikings also used
a crude magnetic compass. Viking boats were also better adapted to open-sea
Phoenician activity was largely confined to the Mediterranean, where
land, and thus fresh-water supplies, was never far away. The furthest
Phoenicians regularly sailed to, was Cornwall, to trade for tin, and
to a trading colony at Mogador on the Atlantic coast of Morocco. Even
then, ships sailed close to the coast, stopping at Phoenician ports
along the way for guidance and supplies.
a voyage across the Atlantic or to Australia would require carrying
sufficient provisions to last the voyage. "Even if the crews ate
fish, what would they do for water?" asked Hassan Sarkiss, Professor
of Archaeology at the Lebanese University. "With ultra-sophisticated
equipment and knowing exactly where they're going, ships still have
problems today." The belief that ships built by early civilizations
were incapable of lengthy open-sea voyages was a fundament of historical
theories. Then in 1947, Norwegian explorer Thor Heyerdahl proved that
open-sea voyages were not beyond the capacity of ancient peoples when
he sailed on a traditional pre-historic reed boat from Peru to Polynesia,
completing the 6,900-kilometer journey in 101 days.
Heyerdahl built an Egyptian papyrus boat and sailed 6,100 kilometers
across the widest part of the Atlantic from Safi in Morocco, not far
from the ancient trading colony at Mogador, to Barbados. This, his second
attempt at the crossing, was completed in 57 days. It proved that in
theory, transatlantic travel was within the reach of the Phoenicians.
Heyerdahl believes that Phoenicians are contenders to the crown for
the discovery of North America. "They had sea-going ability and
they were sailing with women and plants for settlement as early as 1200
BC," he said in a 1999 interview in the Japan Times.
Sarkiss, there is one further complication in the Australian story.
While the Vikings knew from exploration of the seas around their colonies
in Iceland and Greenland that unexplored land lay on the other side
of the Atlantic, there is no proof the Phoenicians had similar knowledge.
"At the time, people believed the world was flat. They didn't know
there was land across the Atlantic or that Asia existed," he said.
J. Green rebuttal of some of the erroneous claims made in his
name on this page -- published verbatim.
(or to whomsoever it may concern),
read with interest your website featuring "Phoenicians
in Australia" compiled and written by a Salim George Khalaf
(no qualifications given). From what appears to be a skeptic's
point of view, it was well done. My compliments.
I noticed that he appears to have given a false impression to
your readers of my collective work "The Gympie Pyramid
Story" (updated version available shortly) of which
I would like to be corrected immediately. "Pyramid Story"
was compiled as a "who dunnit mystery" and left the
readers to ascertain who were the culprits.
also like to point out that I have at no time formed any opinion
or given support to claims of "Phoenician visitations"
made by Messrs (name withheld), a Jonathan Gray, a Ross Wiseman,
Rex Gilroy or a Gilbert Deem in your article except as a general
reading informative overview of the many unsubstantiated claims
being made. In fact, I have my own opinions and these gentlemen
are far off track.
passage that needs correction in your interest reads (in bold
"(name withheld) is the latest researcher to claim that in Sarina, Mackay
in Queensland, a Phoenician harbour "cothon", a temple
and some votive symbols were found. Another researcher Jonathan
Gray in the "Ark of the Covenant" claims that a wreck
of a Phoenician ship lies around the entrance of King Sound
in the Buccaneer Archipelago near Derby in Western Australia.
This wreck happened to be in the area of the silver, lead and
zinc Galena Mine. Ross Wiseman wrote a book called "Pre-Tasman
Explorers" which states that the Phoenicians left clues
to their presence in stone around Lake Taupo in the North Island
of New Zealand. Brett J.Gren has devoted his book" The
Gympie Pyramid Story" to the ruins and artefacts found
in the Gympie and Cooloola regions of southeast Queensland that
point to visitations and settlements of Phoenicians. However,
the foremost researcher in this topic is called Rex Gilroy whose
museum in Tamworth, NSW is rich in stones inscribed in Phoenician.
suggest this more corrected statement:
J. Green has devoted his book "The Gympie Pyramid
to the long standing regional stories of ancient stone ruins,
old photographs, pioneering family interviews, artefacts found,
pioneer sketch drawings and hand copies of pictographs
witnessed on the sandstone blocks found in the Gympie and
of southeast Queensland. Green has endeavoured
to present a generalised overview of the facts, fictions
fantasies concerning claims of ancient visitations and
settlements by Phoenicians [...etc] and whoever else was
supposed to have ventured into Australian waters in ancient
would also like to distance myself from the statements (Bold
type) in the following excerpt:
Gympie region in Queensland sustains a pyramid with Phoenician
scripts on it and a Toth-figurine clutching on the Tau [the
cross of life].. The region revealed other mystery megalithic
structures and remains of pre-European gold, copper and tin
mining operations. An ancient harbour, long dried up, extended
inland from Tin Can Bay to the Gympie district, and ancient
Aboriginal traditions spoke of fair-skinned 'culture-heroes'
having sailed into Gympie in big canoes shaped like birds [Phoenician
triremes with sails and bird-headed prows?]. They built
a "sacred mountain" [the Gympie stepped-pyramid] from
which they worshipped the Sun and stars. They "dug holes
in the hills, then sailed away with the rocks they had dug up,
promising to return".
At no time did I ever claim the pictographs mentioned above
were "Phoenician". These were claims made by the gentlemen
At no time did I ever make reference to the ships mentioned
above as being "Phoenician" with "bird-headed
prows" - again claims by the said gentlemen.
not be aware that Mr (name withheld)'s archaeologically unverified
"Phoenician" settlement at Sarina in central Queensland
is being prepared to be promoted as a major tourism venture
in association with the local council. I have been led to believe
that Messrs Gilroy and Deem are co-partners with Osborne in
you will accede to my requests. An acknowledgment would be appreciated
by return email - and any comments.
Green KIOM., CSO., MM., JP
De Grene Publishing Gympie 4570 Qld Australia
Website (Dhamurian Society)
Mark McMenamin, a geologist from Mount Holyoke College in Massachusetts,
disagrees. He believes that a series of gold coins minted in Carthage
between 350 and 320 BC provide proof that the Phoenicians knew exactly
what lay on the other side of the Atlantic and that they knew of India
with computer-enhanced images of the coins, McMenamin was struck by
the similarity between seemingly random patterns at the bottom of the
coins and Greek geographer Ptolemy's maps of the known world. The difference
was that these maps showed a distinct landmass where the Americas should
be and a large triangular shape to the southeast of the Mediterranean.
discovery, coming as it does from a highly credited scientist who recently
discovered the world's oldest known fossil in Mexico, has resulted in
a great deal of discussion. Some scientists are now prepared to concede
that Diodorus of Sicily might not have been exaggerating when he wrote
in 100 BC that "in the deep off Africa is an island of considerable
size that the Phoenicians discovered by accident after having planted
many colonies throughout Africa."
Phoenicians were familiar with Africa now seems to be accepted fact.
According to Greek historian Herodotus, in 600 BC, Pharaoh Necho hired
a Phoenician fleet to circumnavigate Africa, from the Red Sea around
the Cape of Good Hope and up the West African coast to the Mediterranean.
The mission took three years. The travelers stopped each autumn to plant
crops, which would be harvested before the fleet again set sail. "The
new trend is to believe that the African story is true, although there
is no direct evidence except in Herodotus," said Sader. "But
after discussing the points, all of the information makes sense."
This includes a geographically accurate reference to the voyagers watching
the southern sunrise on their right as they sailed west around the tip
of Africa, a sight Northern Hemisphere sailors never saw.
proximity of the West African and South American coasts and the prevailing
ocean currents, which flow in a westerly direction, Diodorus' claim
is not impossible.
believe that regular, planned journeys across such huge distances simply
wouldn't have been worth the effort. The Phoenicians were traders, not
explorers and colonizers. There would have to be a compelling reason
to undertake such a hazardous voyage.
the journey around Africa took three years, how long would one to Australia
take?" asked Sader. "I don't know if it was worth it and remember,
the idea of sailing out to unknown lands is a relatively recent one."
So did they or didn't they?
isn't convinced. "If the Phoenicians made it to Australia, why
haven't we found evidence of them in India or Indonesia?" If Osborne
is to be believed, the answer to that question might just lie outside
Brisbane. But at the moment there is little physical evidence to suggest
that the Phoenicians ever made it much further than Morocco or Cornwall.
to err on the side of caution. "There are no documented material
finds (in Brazil or Australia) and the Phoenician inscriptions that
were 'found' in Brazil were 'lost' before they could be studied,"
she said. "As for Australia, well, let's say right now that's very,
very far-fetched, isn't it?"
This article is published as is, quoted from sources that want to remain
anonymous. It is not the author's work nor does he take responsibility
for its authenticity or credibility.
article is a mere compilation of names of researchers who have found
Phoenician remains in Oceania. These researchers confirm that there
is enough material evidence to warrant a comprehensible study into Phoenician
expeditions into Australia and a possible reappraisal of its history.
This page aims to establish the steppingstone for a very plausible hypotheses
beyond the reach of academic bias. I thank these researchers on behalf
of modern Phoenicians. I will include further updates on the subject
as they come to hand.
guarding all sea-routes, captains would often sink their ships and abort
their expedition if a rival ship was to discover the keys of those routes.
The government would compensate them for the loss of these sunken ships.
The Phoenicians had sophisticated navigation techniques and ships to
carry heavy cargo across continents, but their secrecy had obscured
their distant destinations and colonies. In this light, it would not
be inconceivable to assume that the ships of Tarshish on their three-year
voyages to Ofir ended up in Java, Sumatra and the Torres Strait.
(name withheld) is the latest researcher to claim that
in Sarina, Mackay in Queensland, a Phoenician harbour "cothon",
a temple and some votive symbols were found. Another researcher Jonathan
Gray in the "Ark of the Covenant" claims that a
wreck of a Phoenician ship lies around the entrance of King Sound in
Archipelago near Derby in Western Australia. This wreck happened to
be in the area of the silver, lead and zinc Galena Mine. Ross Wiseman
wrote a book called "Pre-Tasman Explorers" which
states that the Phoenicians left clues to their presence in stone around
Lake Taupo in the North Island of New Zealand. Brett J.Green
has devoted his book" The Gympie Pyramid Story" to
the ruins and artefacts found in the Gympie and Cooloola regions of
southeast Queensland that point to visitations and settlements of Phoenicians.
However, the foremost researcher in this topic is called Rex Gilroy
whose museum in Tamworth, NSW is rich in stones inscribed in Phoenician.
following is extracted from an article by Glenville Pyke taken
from a book by Gilbert Deem titled "Ancient and Mysterious
Discoveries in Australia":
'near Toowoomba, a group of seventeen granite stones were found with
Phoenician inscriptions. One has been translated to read "Guard
the shrine of Yahweh's message"and "God of Gods".
Another inscription reads "Assemble here to worship
Mr. Gilroy has an ironstone slab found by a man from Cooktown in Far
North Queensland years ago, which bears a Phoenician inscription, "The
Eye of Ra the sun rules Sinim". Sinim was a mysterious
southern continent, mentioned in the Old Testament. The Phoenician
it was Ofir, a "great south land of
gold", where gold was obtained to build Solomon's temple.
The Egyptians called it "the land of Punt". A large
ironstone slab in Mr. Gilroy's museum at Tamworth, was unearthed by
area farmer some years ago, and bears another Phoenician inscription
that reads:"Ships sail from this land under the protection
of Yahweh [Yahweh was not known as a god by the
Hebrews only but was a Phoenician god as well]..." Mr.
Gilroy says that it "may
very well be that minerals and precious stones came from Australia...". He
points out that "black opals found
in archaeological digs in Egypt, could only have come from Australia".'
The Gympie region in Queensland sustains a pyramid with Phoenician scripts
on it and a Toth-figurine clutching on the Tau [the cross of
life].. The region revealed other mystery megalithic structures and
remains of pre-European gold, copper and tin mining operations. An
harbour, long dried up, extended inland from Tin Can Bay to the Gympie
district, and ancient Aboriginal traditions spoke of fair-skinned 'culture-heroes'
having sailed into Gympie in big canoes shaped like birds [Phoenician
triremes with sails and bird-headed prows?]. They built a "sacred
mountain" [the Gympie stepped-pyramid] from which they worshipped
the Sun and stars. They "dug holes in the hills, then sailed
away with the rocks they had dug up, promising to return".
Mr. Gilroy has released a book titled "Pyramids in
the Pacific" containing a history of ancient mining operations throughout Australasia.
Described in full are a number of what he believes are the remains
Middle-Eastern mining colonies, established across Australia, where
copper and tin [needed to manufacture bronze] was mined, as well other
precious metals and gemstones. Some of these colonies were established
deep inland on the shores of coastal rivers, such as one Queensland
site on the Bremer river [which flows into the Brisbane River] east
of Toowoomba. Here he unearthed along with his wife more than 50 stone
slabs bearing Bronze Age Phoenician...inscriptions.
A similar number, recovered at a site outside Moree, in northern NSW
were found near the remains of a megalithic ruin. Here upon an altar
stone he found the Phoenician inscription "Temple of Tanit".
Tanit was the Phoenician earth-mother Goddess.
Gilroy argues that ancient Middle-Eastern explorer-colonists, having
found the mouth of the Murray River in southeastern South Australia,
explored deep into the NSW interior via the adjoining Darling River
as far as Dubbo and Basthurst, explaining Phoenician rock scripts
in these areas; and sailed into the Namoi-Peel River system as far
as the Tamworth-Nundle district, leaving the mass of inscribed stones
pre-European open-cut mining sites found hereabouts. These mining colonies
were large enough to warrant the establishment of local ruling classes,
as shown by the many Phoenician and other rock inscriptions referring
to various local monarchs. This theory would explain why central,
western and northern NSW is literally 'riddled' with rock scripts
in a host of ancient Middle, Near-Eastern and other tongues.
the mouth of the Hawkesbury River over a dozen of human figures reminiscent
of ancient Middle-Eastern seafarers were found carved into rock shelves.
Near Wisemans Ferry is a carving of a ship with tall mast, sail and
bird-headed row. Further downriver at Richmond a farmer had uncovered
two large sandstone lumps of human heads resembling Mithras and Demeter
[Baal Hammon and Tanit!]. Near Gosford, Mr.Gilroy unearthed
two stones inscribed in Iberian Phoenician inscriptions. These state:
this harbour* ships lie at anchor, gathered for Baal".
Waters, at the mouth of the Hawkesbury River]
priest Ra-wa performs rituals at the shrine of the western [setting]
appears the inhabitants explored deep inland up the Hawkesbury-Nepean
Rivers, venturing across the Blue Mountains as far as Katoomba, where
several Phoenician inscriptions were found near the Megalong Valley.
must have penetrated the Georges River, south of Sydney, to leave the
three inscribed stones recovered recently at a Lansvale riverbank site;
and at Campbelltown further south, in 1970 Mr. Gilroy recovered a sandstone
slab bearing the image of a seated, animal-headed figure [which appears
to depict Baal, the Phoenician Sun-God] on one side, and on the other
the Iberio-Phoenician inscriptions:
Sun, the divine King.
Baal the Sun rules.
He the waters of this land rules."
south, outside Bowral, near a megalithic ruin, the possible remains
of an ancient temple, a large stone bearing the following inscription
Phoenician Baal this shrine is dedicated by Hu.
We are sailors from Ham who worship the sun."
the Gilroys found another inscription; written in Phoenician:
God of the Sun, on the prepared
at his shrine before his stone.
On Beltain*, on Ludd's altar stone
sacrifice to him.
The pleasing son of Mabo sails the Sunship".
of Beltain - May Day
axes, swords, jars, scarabs, rock art along with Aboriginal dreamtime
from the Kimberley support the hypotheses that the Phoenicians had reached
Australia. Further more they had established long-term colonies and
mining operations and intermarried with the Aborigines producing "spirit-children"
as the Wandjina tales sustains. If all these accounts can be confirmed
then history will be rewritten, if not, then we would have exercised
our imagination with a beautiful story.
in this site do not necessarily represent Phoenicia.org nor do they necessarily reflect those of the various authors, editors, and owner of this site. Consequently, parties mentioned or implied cannot be held liable or responsible for such opinions.